Bitchy Kurn Bitches

20 Replies to “Bitchy Kurn Bitches”

1. Damn, you’re starting to sound like me.

   Maybe all these terrible Hunter applicants (one of which apparently got extended a ginvite and start of his initiate’s trial) are similar to your Fail!Paladin.

2. Rilgon – I’ve always been able to be a bitch, but without being a raid leader/guild leader, it doesn’t come out as often. ;D

   I’m so sorry if you have to deal with Huntard, the hunter equivalent of Failadin. :(

3. It probably sounded different at the time, but to me it was more that your RL/GM was looking for a good healer app – not that they were saying all the healers were bad.

   H-Dreamwalker – I think we did it with four healers for more control outside.

   Hmmm – how long does said healer have to stick around for that 25k?

4. I know its frustrating Kurn, but think about it from the other 24 people in the raid including the RL/GM. We all have nights like this…when everything seems to be working against us.

   However, I have to be honest the whole “competant healer” comment by the RL/GM I think might have been taken out of context. Granted I can only see the words you’ve posted and not hear the vent or other conversations that preceded that comment, but on the surface, it looks like the comments was a direct shot at the paladin app…not the current healers. And I have to say…well its something I could see myself saying if I had to deal with such an incredibly poor paly app.

   By the way…I’ll split the 25k with you and not even say a word!

5. Ad – He may very well have been, but this is right after our sixth (?) consecutive wipe on heroic Sindragosa, and an attempt where he (the MT) died due to lack of heals. Why? Because I had unchained and the dipshit raid leader who was doing healing did healing WRONG, so not everyone covered for me when I hit my macro. He had assigned specific backups instead of getting all backups to drop heals on the tank. My specific backup was, you know, DEAD at the time. So the tank died. Then Failadin was like “yo, I want me some phat lewtz” and that’s when he made his comment. So to me, even if he WAS just talking about Failadin, he was certainly pissed that he had died. It’s not like he knows shit about healing anyways. He just expects you to heal him. This is why I’m always assigned to him, because my RL friend knows I won’t deviate from my assignment.

   As to DW – we typically do it with 3 healers outside and 5 healers inside and do it very well. It’s just that Failadin is, well, fail.

   re: 25kg — hahahaha. I wouldn’t touch his gold with gloves on. I hate him that much.

   R – I know, I remember those nights. But I was motivated to keep going because I LIKED the people I was leading. Or I felt like I really wanted to do right by the team, like when we were guilded and working on Sarth 3D (even though I came in after you downed him, he really wasn’t on farm) or 6m Maly. God, I hate that fight, man.

   As to tone, we don’t use vent. But this happened just about a month ago and is pretty standard (MT was “raid leader” that night, as in formed up the group):

   http://kurn.apotheosis-now.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/healerssuck.jpg

   Don’t want his gold. He can kiss my ass before I do much else to help out the guild. I’m going to show up, do my job, log off. I’m done doing healing, I’m done sticking my neck out. I am literally only there because my RL friend hasn’t quit the game.

6. Oh, I miss raiding with people I like too, Kurn. I also miss raiding with people that have more patience than a ladybug when it comes to learning their class and maximizing their efforts.

   /sigh

7. Hello. Your guild stories are always a great read, but it does come at a cost of your own well-being. I believe it may be time to put yourself first, before your RL friend, before your guild and possibly before your duties in your raids. FailPaladin would annoy me too.

8. Starm – wouldn’t that be nice? Where people actually know and understand their class abilities? /yearn!

   Anon – I appreciate your comment and your concern. They say that if you continue to do something, it’s because it’s giving you something in return. Like, if I’m voluntarily going through some stupid shit in the guild/raiding environment I’m in, clearly I’m getting something out of it.

   Some of it is spending time with my RL friend. Some of it is knowing that I can hack it in some of the most difficult encounters these crazed designers have ever come up with. Some of it is knowing that I’m part of a team (I consider the healers my team, not the raid group at large) and that I really had a large hand in getting us through the end of regular mode and through 8/12 hard modes by doing healing assignments.

   So while it does drive me absolutely insane on occasion (like last night), I do get *something* out of it that I value. Not to mention the fact that it would really bother me if I bailed on my team. With the other holy pally in and out for the next three weeks and Failadin being the only other pally around atm, I’d be leaving my team in the lurch.

   Having said that, I do plan to take today to rest, relax, recuperate and, if need be, write to the raid leader and my RL friend and let them know that my attendence will be spotty going forward, for at least a week or two. I’m considering all kinds of options, from going part time to quitting altogether to sticking around.

   At the very least, though, I can take comfort in knowing that good healers around the blogosphere are facepalming at Failadin. That really helps me to feel better. :)

   Again, thanks for your comment, Anon. I really do appreciate it.

9. I feel for you Kurn… i really do.
   being a GM and RL myself (never understood why there should be a different GM and RL) i m very aware that one person’s foul play can cause the other 24 to lose focus/feel the content 3x harder etc etc.

   Now if thats combined with loot bitching then u should make a mage make a portal to dalaran on ur next valithria and tell the failadin to take THAT portal (ye i know, combat issues etc but u get my point) :D

   Regarding the 25k comment, i m pretty sure he wasnt generalising about all healers. I also use comments like “healing sux” or “healers wake up” (“melees stop failing”) but i ve made it crystal clear that my job is to make sure the 3 departments work fine (tank/dps/healing) and the officers are there to spot WHICH of the healer fails when the RL blames healing department or which of the melee didnt move out of fire.

   All in all if u know u did things right urself, you know the RL is talking about someone else who u saw failing over and over again.

   As for our guild, Outlaw Legends , here is my no1 rule : RAID/GUILD SYNERGY is the A and Z of a raid/guild. I m not talking buffs/speccs here. I m talking people liking people and wanting to “work” (play) together. We got 2 25-man grps, one is 11/12hm and the other 7/12hm raiding 3 days a week. Atm some core ppl are helping socials get 10-man drakes. That sounds like a good team play to me.

   I ve asked numerous people who dont get along with others to leave guild just cos of that, even though these ppl included an awesome holy pala (which we had shortage of already), a top dps warlock, a 24/7 raider with 2 alts good as mains etc.

   You should either call this a “bad day” and forget about it, or if u really really feel u r surrounded by people u dont like or make ur mood worse instead of better, have a good chat with the GM or RL (or both) and let them know of this situation. Dont just give up/leave without talking this through with ur “superiors”.

   Soz for the WoT, Regards,
   Crowheart

   PS Inviting some core player’s lvl42 friend as social for shits and giggles can work a loooooong way into guild morale, i hope they are doing that in ur guild.

10. Crowheart – Hey, no worries about the Wall of Text. I’m pretty darn long-winded myself. ;)

    It was definitely a bad day and while I won’t chat with the GM (he’s a tool, a dick, any other number of phrases you would like to use), the raid leader is approachable enough when he’s not pissing in someone’s Cheerios. If I do decide to leave, the raid leader will have plenty of notice and I’ll have the full support of my RL friend.

    As to the GM/MT… everyone wants to give him the benefit of the doubt here. And I understand that. No one can possibly believe that this complete asshole would/could run a guild. The guy has no impulse control and rules by fear, not by respect. While I’m sure it was prompted by Failadin, I KNOW he thinks the healers suck. And not just like “hey guys, haha, you sucked on that one”. He actually thinks we suck. This, coming from a tank who TAUNTS to pull. So, really, I understand that you think it’s a comment about the quality of guild applicants, but I know that even if that’s part of it, he’s commenting on the fact that he thinks the healers suck. Which is why he threw out Annoying!Priest and why he made the offer in guild.

    Apart from all that, I like the way it sounds like you run your guild. It reminds me greatly of Apotheosis, back in Burning Crusade. But this guild… it’s less of a “guild” and more of a “collection of people who want to do content”. There’s very little sense of community among the guild members. I knew that going in. It’s not a social guild at ALL. Everyone has alts on the server, but very few have any of them in the guild. My RL friend has four or five alts, none of which are in our main guild.

    Everyone is in the guild to raid. There are very few “social” members and those that are social are “seen and not heard”, basically. I don’t log on to my paladin to do anything except raid and occasionally arena, when my brother and our friend insist upon it, just because the atmosphere sucks. People don’t even say HI to each other.

    Anyways. Clearly I’m not happy there. I WILL be leaving. The question is do I leave next week or next patch or next expansion? :)

11. I ll start from ur end of ur post. imo if u gonna leave for sure, give them 2-3 weeks notice to find some1 and adjust to the new scenario. There is a girl we got like 2 months ago in guild who has been almost forever in her previous guild. After months of putting up with the shittiest behaviour from GM/Officers she told them over and over that she would go.

    Now she is here and she doesnt regret a second leaving them and is only sorry for the mis-treatment she was receiving all this time while trying to be “the better person” and not letting them down.

    What ur GM or RL or anyone has to understand is how the healing team works. if u 6-heal stuff, it takes only ONE crappy healer to screw the rest. Dps is not the same, they are more independent of each other. Tanking is even more personal. if tank A fails, tank B can fix his mistakes. Healers have no such luxuries. If he doesnt get that especially while lol-MTing (i m the MT also) then tell him to max zoom out his camera and start watching the raid and maybe some logs too. Unless he is struggling with tanking :P

    As for socialising, i ve seen guilds rise and fall when they were consisted of “collection of people who want to do content”. As fast as they rise, the faster they collapse when ppl get gear and dont feel obliged to be there and help friends (what friends) :/

    We got a very very open social rule in guild. If u r a friend of a guildie, u r in. Simple as that. If u got 5 alts and u play them all, u can get all of them in guild. If u dont play them we ll just kick them for inactivity :D
    We even give 1-2 socials LK25 kill each week so every1 gets their Kingslayer title and is happy. Making ur guild elitist is sooooooooo Vanilla Days now that everyone can play/gear/level fast alts.

    Finally i just gotta say this… My healers are good! good people and good raiders! sorry, i just had to say it cos i dont say it enough to them and u kinda woke me up there. In fact i m gonna go to the forums and tell them just now :P

    (we got a joke in guild where for everything good that happens we only say “gj healers, gj” and ignore dpsers)

12. small add i forgot:

    its good ur MT uses taunt to pull together with XXX YYY ability. melees tend to die if u dont on bosses who are untargettable @ start like saurfang/council/sindra etc. Dont mock him for that, i took me countless yells for my tanks to learn that :D

13. Crowheart – My plan has been to leave when 4.0 hits or thereabouts, depending on if there’s any planned content beyond Ruby Sanctum. My RL friend knows this. My raid leader knows this. I’ve had very frank conversations with them both. My RL friend knows I’m unhappy and she’s unhappy as well. The raid leader knows I’m frustrated. I am not the type of person who just ups and leaves. It’s very tempting, mind you, but I’m not that type of person.

    I don’t know how much of my blog you’ve read, but the short story of why I’m raiding where I’m raiding is this:

    2.5 years ago, my RL friend and I discovered that we both play WoW. But I’m a guild master and I can’t leave my guild. When my guild fell apart 14 months ago, her guild didn’t need any holy paladins. So I went to another guild. Right when the raid leader in THAT guild ragequit, my RL friend’s guild needed a holy paladin. So I applied.

    I knew I wouldn’t be happy, socially.

    I knew I would get achievements, progression and loot.

    I knew I would push myself beyond what I normally would.

    So I knew what I was getting into and it became very apparent, very quickly, that I would leave the guild at the end of the expansion. Thus, I’ll have raided with my RL friend for half of T9 and all of T10 content, then move on and go back “home”.

    So my exit strategy is in place, but I may move it up a little bit. We’ll see how content (and the raid situation) goes.

    Further, with regards to the guild structure, they’ve been raiding for five years. Many people have shifted in and out, but the overall guild leadership consists of people who have been there for four plus years. This isn’t a guild that’s going to collapse tomorrow. I don’t know how or why, but they never do collapse. And that’s despite the MT being a jackass who knows shit-all about healing.

    I’m not going to change them and I’m not going to try. I agree with you about raid leaders needing to know SOMETHING about all the groups, which is why I am always shocked that various raid leaders I’ve had don’t know shit about one or two of the roles you find in a raid. In my last guild on Bronzebeard, the raid leader didn’t know anything about healing or tanking. At all.

    But they’re all stuck in their ways, they’re not going to change and they won’t give their socials Kingslayer titles for fun. They go in and raid like it’s a job (which I’m okay with) but then go home and don’t like to go for drinks/coffee with their co-workers, you know?

    Glad you’re gonna give props to your healers. :)

    As to the taunts, no, really, he pulls with taunt and doesn’t always pair it with something. Just last week, we lost an enhancement shaman and a feral druid because taunt was ALREADY on cooldown. He’s a good tank overall — uses his cooldowns, can usually hold aggro. It’s just a matter of the initial couple of seconds. Drives me insane never knowing which melee is about to eat floor.

14. @Crowheart – pulling with your taunt is, well – I have an analogy I’ve used in the past that isn’t really appropriate. The clean version is – it’s idiotic to pull with your taunt (even on untargetable bosses). Here’s why.

    Taunt has ZERO positive effect if the target is already targeting you. Only the Paladin taunt does significant damage I believe (if they aren’t targeting them), and what you’ve now done is trigger your taunt CD and started the taunt immunity timer on the mob/boss. Let’s look at two different examples.

    Example One: Taunt fires first. So let’s say you’re using a Warrior to MT Saurfang, and because he knows your DPS is sitting there spamming the /AMGDPS key, he’s frantically spamming his taunt – just waiting for Saurfang to go active. Suddenly he’s live, and his taunt fires – along with his auto-attacks. Now you’ve got three seconds where the boss is focused on your Tank, but he’s got 1.5 seconds waiting for his GCD to come down. You have time for one, maybe two abilities that aren’t on the GCD to fire before the effect wears off.

    Now in this instance, JoeJoe the DPS pulls ahead of Tank 1, so Saurfang targets him. Your MT is standing there holding his junk in his hands, because his taunt is on CD, so tank #2 taunts. You now have two taunts in < 8 seconds. A few seconds later, the MT taunts back, because he's supposed to have Saurfang first. Oops. Now the Boss is taunt immune – right around the time that Rune of Blood comes out. Suddenly Saurfang is healing up that damage that your overeager DPS did, and his Blood Power is rocketing up because he still has 10 seconds of Taunt immunity left – and your OT blew their taunt anyway because he didn't realize Saurfang was immune.

    Sry:(

    Example Two: Tank fires taunt after establishing agro.

    Precisely zero happens to his threat, it does NOT force the boss to attack for any length of time, and just starts the taunt diminishing return/immunity timer.

    Sry:(

    Example Three (Bonus): Tank pulls trash with a taunt.

    Overeager DPS guy opens up, trash turns and punches them in the face for TEXA$ worth of damage – because the tank's taunt is on CD.

    Sry:(

    Please stop teaching your tanks bad mechanics. Instead teach your DPS to be patient for two or three seconds. The days of waiting for five sunders is past, but if you don't have a hunter/rogue doing a threat transfer, the tank still needs a few seconds to establish solid agro.

15. What Ad just said! I totally forgot about the diminishing returns of taunt and the problems it can cause. We run into that issue a lot, or at least we used to. The off-tank will not taunt unless the MT is dead or has Rune of Blood on Saurfang. But he had to learn to adjust to the MT’s stupid pulling methods.

16. i m sorry to say but ur examples belong to a world of bending theorycraft where u only state facts to prove that point.

    no1 : u dont PULL with a taunt. u pull with fff (i m a druid) or IT (or d&D) if DK etc etc. like i said its good to use it TOGETHER with XXX YYY ability. now if kurn’s tank actually taunts to pull something its a totally different matter.

    no2 : dps being patient is truly vanilla. tell me which raid in the world has no rogue or hunter? my dpsers start nuking from 1st second when i m tanking cos thats how proper tanks should play. the only way a dps gets aggro is by stupid blizz’s initial body aggro on cut-scene bosses , something which taunt will NEVER allow. unless u can name me one dpser who can pass 2 totts and 1 misdirect @ start.

    no3 : saurfang example again. VERY VERY false info u give here. “i taunt u taunt he taunts”. this is not how tanks play u know. a dpser (melee) would be dead anyway. if u have tanks that will make saurfang immune then n/c

    no4 : i saw u made a post on divine plea already flaming me about this WITHOUT GETTING YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. read again my post, and watch what i wrote before u make a comment where i said “taunt FIRST”. in the end, before u make a post, ask and make sure the person you are about to flame really said what you are writing.

    no5 : tell me that u NEVER had blood council ninja killing a melee @ body pull and if u did in that case ur tank did NOT use taunt.

    meanwhile food for thought for you :
    1. GCDs + fff + mangle/maul macro
    2. Saurfang Rune of Blood duration
    3. General Etiquette and politeness.

    Finally i will end how Adga ended. Bloggers stop teaching your readers bad mechanics. Instead tell your DPS to do their job from the 1st second of the pull if you have hunters/rogues in raid (duh).

    Regards, Crow

    @ Kurn : sorry for flooding ur post but i had to answer this falsity. I wont turn this into a 1vs1 i promise :) (i do expect the post corrected though in his blog)

17. Sorry, Ad is right. While I may not be the best tank, I have one of each class (druid, warrior, paladin, and DK) and even I know that you do not pull with a taunt unless you’re a paladin and you’re targeting a caster while your shield is on cooldown. The only exception I can think of is pre-nerf Scourgelord Tyrannus, where ranged DPS could open up full throttle before he landed, and a tank could just taunt, be miles ahead on aggro, and he’d be half dead.

    If you’ve ever read my comments here, you’ll know I adore playing devil’s advocate, so… Who knows. Maybe you just didn’t get your point across in the way you wanted. But the way you worded it was poor, at best, and it sounded to me (and I assume, most readers) that you think pulling with a taunt is a good thing.

    I’ll even go a step further, where you suggest using a taunt with, say, FFF. Why waste the cooldown, even if it’s off the GCD? Let’s take a look:

    Faerie Fire (Feral) : “… and additional threat when used in Bear Form or Dire Bear Form.”
    Icy Touch : “… Very high threat when in Frost Presence.”
    Anything a pally does with Righteous Fury : “Increases the threat generated by your Holy spells by 80%.” Which basically just means “lol preemptive consecrate.”
    Sunder Armor (alt, Devastate) : “… and causes a high amount of threat. Threat increased by attack power.”

    Even with trigger-happy DPS, you should always always always be able to get initial aggro off of them, ESPECIALLY if you have a hunter and/or rogue, are in a guild-run, and don’t suck.

    And your taunt if off its cooldown. GG.

18. what u said describes me and not him. he said “pull with a taunt first”. tell me where i used this phrase. But i will agree totally with the rest of your post. My wording was bad perhaps, so i tried to explain myself a little better in the following post i made.

    “Even with trigger-happy DPS, you should always always always be able to get initial aggro off of them, ESPECIALLY if you have a hunter and/or rogue, are in a guild-run, and don’t suck.” – TYVM, exactly why the saurfang example fails.

    It happens to us a lot (whatever tank is tanking druid/warr/pala) that bosses after cut-speeches activate and hit or kill a melee in 0.1 secs before totts/mds/first hits are applied.
    To counter this we place melees 5 yards away from melee range @ pull on specific bosses (sindra/saurfang/council) which gives u just enough time to take the boss into ur control. Taunt saves us there each and every time cos boss goes out of melee range and in his travel time totts/mds/everything has activated on server lag.
    Meanwhile if 1 in a million (as ad says falsely as a given) a dps goes “too eager” and hunter/rogues dont exist in this world the tank immediately gets the aggro of the aggro holder and can continue as normal. i dont see why an OT would taunt from the MT and the MT would taunt from the OT and all that jazz.

    And again, you are right. Maybe my wording was bad but i never thought someone who reads that i m a MT/GM/RL doing 11/12 hms (and 7/12 hms with my DK tank in grp2) would assume that I run to Marrowgar and instead of fff to pull i use taunt… Especially a guy who i enjoyed reading his blog before. I thought the discussion was more advanced than stating the obvious.
    (plus i felt guilty for the previous wall of text and i tried to make a shorter post)

    You see here how this is a discussion now instead of the “ohhhh i ll take what he said, bend the wording, humiliate him and come out as pro”. You actually bothered to give me the benefit of the doubt that one deserves.

19. “its good ur MT ***uses taunt to pull*** together with XXX YYY ability.”

    Right there, buddy.

20. Well, I take the evening off from the Internet and come back to find this has degenerated. Perhaps it was to be expected, since the comments are all in response to a post where I’m bitching, but honestly, not cool, guys.

    a) Crowheart, they’re not twisting your words. You did say it’s good for a tank to pull with taunt and other abilities. Period. Also, I find it unreasonable for you to expect Adgamorix to change his blog post, which is on a whole other website, when he has some very clear examples as to when pre-emptive use of Taunt, Hand of Reckoning, Dark Command and Growl are bad.

    b) Adgamorix, perhaps you could have been more tactful than going out and saying “please stop teaching your tanks bad mechanics”. It doesn’t mean I don’t agree with you, but I can see how that comment could get someone riled up.

    c) X, good comment with the whole talk of “high-threat” moves.

    Having said that, I will now do something I pretty much never do and close comments on this entry.

    Ad, X, you guys aren’t new to my blog or commenting on it so, going forward, I’d just ask you both to ensure your comments aren’t of the sort that someone here might take too personally or that might bait someone. 99% of the time, your comments fit into that, so it’s all good.

    Crowheart, you’re new to posting on my blog, so I’ll ask you to please not jump at any bait thrown your way or respond in the future the way you have here, as your responses directed towards Adgamorix have been rather personal in nature.

    I have never removed someone’s permission to post an unmoderated comment on my blog once I’ve given it. Please, everyone, don’t give me reason to start.

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